LEGEND: Giants

0:00Aloha, so supernatural listeners. If you love diving into the strange and unexplained with us, we have another podcast that we think you'll enjoy. Dark Down East. That's right, every week, host Kylie Lo takes us deep into New England's darkest mysteries. But these are real cases, from unsolved crimes to long buried secrets, said in the beautiful, historical, and sometimes eerie New England. Kylie's storytelling is so heartfelt and meticulous, you'll feel like you're uncovering the truth right alongside her, as she dives deep into the lives behind the cases and the impact they've had on their communities. Check out Dark Down East now, wherever you listen to podcasts. If you've ever stood at the base of a fossilized dinosaur skeleton, then you can understand the magic this planet used to hold. Adult T-Rexes stood 21 feet tall.

1:01Wooly mammoths, dwarfed modern elephants. Ice aged deer stood seven feet at the shoulder, with antlers stretching another 12 feet above that. And if you're terrified of bugs like me, do not look this up. About 50 million years ago, millipede-like insects grew to over eight feet long. Scientists still aren't sure why ancient species grew so large. It could have been higher oxygen levels in the atmosphere, maybe more efficient digestive systems, lighter bones. I mean, these theories exist, but none are definitive. Is clear is millions of years ago, everything was much bigger. Dinosaurs, insects, mammals. So the question worth asking is, what about us?

2:03Mythology across nearly every ancient culture talks about giants. Massive human-like beings that are powerful and dangerous. The stories seem too widespread across civilizations to dismiss it as pure coincidence. And here's where it gets interesting. Over the past few centuries, archaeologists have reportedly found artifacts that suggest giants weren't just legends. Enormous teeth, unusually large skeletal remains, discoveries that quietly disappeared from history. And if you're wondering why you've never heard about them, well, that might be intentional. I'm Russia Pecorero. And I'm Yvette Gentile. This is so supernatural.

3:13Most people have never heard of megalophobia. But chances are, you already understand it. It's the fear of large objects and animals. And it's more common than you'd think. All statues, ancient trees, whales, open water. Something deep in your brain registers big and immediately files it under danger. And it's not hard to see why. A garter snake in your yard is, yeah, startling. But a tin foot python is a whole other story. The bigger something is, the scarier it is. While it might sound like an overreaction, the instinct behind it is primal.

4:18Something in our brain has always registered big as dangerous. But that fear didn't just live in our heads. It lived in our stories. And it wasn't just bugs or animals or trees. It was people too. Nearly every culture in human history has legends about giants. This violent human-like beings that threaten the ancient world. Some of the oldest legends come from ancient Egypt. And it's important to note, the ancient Egyptian empire lasted an incredibly long time, over 3,000 years. So let's just rewind back to about 820 CE. The Roman Empire has fallen. Christianity has started sweeping across Europe. And the rulers of Egypt look at these millennia old pyramids and tombs scattered throughout their country and wonder what's inside.

5:19Because they were built so long ago, nobody even remembers. Rumors and legends had giants hauled the enormous pyramid stones into place thousands of years before. Once they were built, they hid all of their golden jewels and other treasures inside. But in 820 CE, archaeologists began exploring the pyramids to see if the legends were true. And along the way, they found something that seemed to confirm it. Art worked depicting massively tall people. This included one statue of a pharaoh that would have towered over his enemies. Hyroglyphics referred to him as the Scorpion King. And they said that he was the first king to ever rule over Egypt around roughly 3100 BCE. Right around the time archaeologists were learning this, another culture was rising.

6:22Ancient Greece, which had its own legends about giants. In their mythology, the world used to be ruled by massive evil creatures called Titans. The stories never specified exactly how tall they were. They were presumably large enough to level out planes and valleys and dig trenches that became the oceans because it was said they literally shaped the earth. But they didn't seem to take good care of their creation. They tortured their subjects and enjoyed cruelty for cruelty's sake. The King of the Titans, Cronus, actually overthrew his father so he could seize the throne for himself. After his rule began, Cronus received a prophecy. It said one of his sons would defeat him and take his throne, just as he had done to his own father. To prevent the prediction from coming true, Cronus ensured none of his children would

7:25live to adulthood. Each time his wife Rhea gave birth, he would take his child from its mother's arms and eat them alive. So Rhea came up with her own plan. When she gave birth to a baby boy named Zeus, she tricked her husband into swallowing a rock instead of her son. It worked just long enough for them to escape. Rhea hid Zeus on an island in the human world and he grew up there. Once he was an adult, he led a revolt against all of the Titans, including his own father. After ten years of warfare, he overthrew them and became the new King of the Gods. Since the Titans were immortal, Zeus couldn't kill them, but he did put most of them in a prison in the underworld. We could go on and on because lots of cultures have giants in their creation myths.

8:25And around 500 BCE or so, legends about giants were also being recorded in the Bible. I mean so we think. That's when scribes began recording what would become some of the most well-known stories in human history. Tales that appear across three major world religions. Christianity, Judaism and Islam. And one of those stories features, you guessed it, a giant. And it goes a little something like this. Two armies are facing off. The Israelites on one hill, their enemies, the Philistines on another, with a wide valley between them. Before anyone can charge, a single Philistine warrior steps forward into that valley and stops everything. His name was Goliath and he was enormous. Goliath made an offer. Forget the battle. Send out one soldier to fight me.

9:27One on one. If I lose, the Philistine surrender. If I win, the Israelites submit to our rule. It was a simple deal. One fight instead of a full blown war. The only catch, Goliath was so massive, so intimidating that not a single Israelite soldier was willing to step forward and face him. So reportedly, Goliath gave the Israelites some time to think about his offer. He came back the next morning to issue the same challenge, but again, no one spoke up. And on it went for 40 days. The two armies just sat on their hills, locked in a stalemate. Until a teenager came along and changed everything. His name was David. He wasn't even a soldier. He was just a kid who had come to the front lines to drop off a care package to his three

10:28older brothers who were serving in the Israelite army. But when David heard about Goliath's challenge, his mind was made up. He was going to fight. A soldier offered David his armor. David turned it down. He'd never worn armor before and didn't want to be stumbling around in unfamiliar equipment on a battlefield. Instead, he walked out to face the most feared warrior of the ancient world, armed with nothing but a sling and a bag of rocks. When Goliath came forward, David loaded his sling, took aim, and fired a single stone directly at Goliath's head. It landed, and Goliath dropped. And just to be sure, David walked over and swiftly cut off his head. David had walked out onto that battlefield as a nobody. He left as a hero.

11:28And the Israelites won the war. Many interpret this story as a metaphor, whether it's true or not, how underdogs can overcome incredible obstacles. But there's another story from the Bible about how giants were created and then destroyed that seems to hint at a more literal interpretation. According to the Bible, after Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden, humanity spread across the earth. But somewhere along the way, something unexpected happened. Angels came down from the heavens and made it with human women. Their children were called the Nephilim. They weren't fully human and they weren't fully angels. And by most interpretations, they never should have existed at all. God hadn't intended for them to be born, but what they became was monstrous, enormous, violent, and cruel.

12:31Creatures that tormented the people around them and couldn't be reasoned with. God decided that they had to go. He warned a man named Noah that a catastrophic flood was coming, enough to wipe the slate clean. Noah was told to build an ark and save his family, and y'all probably know the rest of this story. But here's what most people don't realize. The story of Noah's ark isn't really about punishing humanity. And at its core, it's about wiping out a race of giant half-human, half-angel hybrids who had made the world unlivable. All to say, the legends about giants are endless. While there are major differences from one story to the next, it's also striking how similar many of these tales are. All of them say giants are evil, and that the gods had to violently wipe them out for

13:33the benefit of humanity. Now, according to writer John Junta, giants simply represent the chaos of nature. They are a metaphor for the uncontrollable forces we face every day, and how we can still overcome them. But it's possible these stories aren't just lessons baked into legends, because it turns out some have claimed to find evidence that giants really did exist. Shevi is called the heartbeat of America for a reason, with SUVs made to move with your rhythm. The versatile equinox tackles your entire day. The spacious traverse fits your crew and your whole weekend, and tracks spring style with value you can count on. All infused with tech that has your back. So your drive always hits the right cord.

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15:41In the fall of 1705 a farmer was walking along the shores of a river near Albany, New York when he spotted something in the dirt. It was a tooth presumably the same shape as an ordinary molar because when the farmer showed it to some other people they all told him it looked human except there was one strange detail that stood out. It was huge way too big to fit in any person's mouth and it weighed about 5 pounds. The farmer and the people he showed believe the person would have had to have been 30 or 40 feet tall to need teeth of that size. Eventually news of the tooth reached a Boston based Puritan minister named Cotton Mather. In his name may ring a bell because he was considered an expert on witchcraft demons and the dark arts. During the Salem witch trials in 1692 he actually wrote several letters to the judges and the

16:45courts in Salem about how to fight the forces of evil. Cut to 13 years after the witch trials. When Cotton heard about the tooth it reminded him of another enormous fossil discovered in the Albany area. Someone had recently found an enormous leg bone in the region. Records are vague around this time but reports suggest it may have been something like three and a half to four feet long and that was just one bone. Cotton thought the tooth and the leg bone had come from the same species, an enormous person who once stood dozens of feet tall. But as a man of faith, Cotton assumed this giant was a nephilum, one of those angel human hybrids that drowned in Noah's flood, which is when he took the finding a step further. Cotton believed this was proof that the book of Genesis in the Bible was literally true.

17:48Cotton wrote countless letters about it to research groups and the world society of London. He seemingly wanted them to acknowledge this as proof that Christianity was the one correct faith. It's safe to say that people he wrote to were skeptical, but some scientists agreed with Cotton's conclusion that giants were real, including a man named Thomas Mollenew. He was born and raised in Dublin, Ireland. He received a degree in medicine and became a pretty well-known doctor. But he was also a naturalist and a scientist. He spent his career studying human and animal bodies, trying to understand how every living creature worked. Five years before Cotton wrote about the alleged nephilum tooth and leg bone, Thomas visited a museum in the Netherlands. There he saw a bone on display. It was the front part of a skull. The museum directors didn't know who or what kind of creature the bone had come from.

18:52They didn't have the rest of the skeleton available for study, but Thomas took one look at it and realized it was far too large to come from a human being. That is, unless that person had been between 11 and 12 feet tall. So Thomas wondered if perhaps giants were in fact real, especially once he heard about Cotton's declarations. And his suspicions seemed to be confirmed 12 years later in 1717. And that's when an archaeological team discovered a grave very near to Stonehenge. When they excavated it, they once again found really large bones. They seemed to come from people who were around 9 feet tall. This was especially notable because many of the oldest legends about Stonehenge claim it was built by giants. This grave seemed to confirm those old myths were at least partially true.

19:57And the evidence just kept piling up from there. Sometime in the late 1800s, a farmer was plowing a field in Minnesota. That's when he found something unexpected in the dirt. Large stone tools that looked too big for any average sized human to use. There one look at them, he knew exactly what they were. Numerous indigenous communities in the area had legends saying giants used to live on the land. Well, roughly around the same time, a pair of construction workers changed the game when they made a discovery on October 16, 1869. Their names were Gideon Emmons and Henry Nichols. Their farmer named William Newell had hired them to dig a well on his land, which is in a tiny New York town of Cardiff. So that day, Gideon and Henry grabbed their shovels and started delving into the earth

20:59until they hit something unexpected about 3 feet down. It looked like a human foot, only it was rock hard as though it was made of stone, and it was far larger than any ordinary person's foot. Henry and Gideon presumably kept digging, and soon enough, they uncovered a leg, a torso, arms, and a head. By the end of the day, Gideon and Henry had found a massive 10 foot tall man, and his whole body seemed to be made of rock. But they didn't think it was a statue. They believed it had actually been petrified by the waters of a nearby swamp. So they came to believe it was a giant, one that had been buried very long ago, and had since turned to stone. Henry and Gideon then went into the town of Cardiff and told everyone what they had found.

22:04The top universities in the United States sent professors and experts to study the mummified giant. P.T. Barnum even tried to buy it so it could be part of his traveling circus, but the landowner, William Newell, wasn't interested. He had a better offer. A group of local businessmen wanted to invest in the Cardiff giant. They offered William $30,000. In exchange, William agreed to give those businessmen a cut of all the future profits he made, from sending it on tours, selling tickets to let the people view it, and so on. It was a great deal for William, but P.T. Barnum did not take the rejection lying down. He made his own fake stone giant and sent it on a tour around the nation, pretending

23:06it was the real deal. And if you've seen the greatest showmen, that tracks. And what you could imagine created a lot of controversy. I mean, rumors spread that the Cardiff giant was a hoax, and especially when other con artists made counterfeit stone mummies, before long the general public lost interest in the original body, and William ended up selling it to someone who brought it on tours. But they later tossed it in a barn and forgot all about it. And then many people concluded that giants weren't real after all. However, a few true believers remained, especially as more discoveries were made public. Reportedly, a group of researchers found a skeleton that was almost 10 feet tall in Brewer'sville, Indiana, in 1879, a decade after the Cardiff discovery. They wanted to study it to learn more, but unfortunately, a flood destroyed the building

24:10where it was being stored before they could give it a thorough examination. About 30 years later, in 1911, miners were digging in Lovelock, Cave Nevada. There, they discovered numerous indigenous artifacts and bones. They notified the local authorities and asked them to take a look. Over the next decade and a half, various archaeological teams excavated the cave. And supposedly, they found skeletons of people who were 8 to 10 feet tall. The evidence appeared to exist. So, I mean, you're probably wondering why aren't giants accepted as fact today? Well, the answer to that question may lie in a very old conspiracy. The truth started to surface back in 2014 when a news article quoted an anonymous official from the Smithsonian Institute. For the sake of the story, we'll call them Fallon.

25:11And allegedly, they admitted that they and their colleagues had been part of a massive cover-up. And according to Fallon, this cover-up began in the early 1900s. Right around the time, the Lovelock Cave skeletons, the Brewersville bones, and the Cardiff giant were making headlines. And those discoveries created a serious problem for the scientific community. And let me just tell you, here's why. At that time, Charles Darwin's theory of evolution was still deeply controversial. So controversial that the state of Tennessee actually made it illegal to teach in schools. When a teacher named John Scopes broke that law in 1925, he was arrested. And his two-week trial became a global news story. Everyone had an opinion. Everyone had to pick a side. And that was the issue.

26:12Many scientists felt they had to choose between science and religion, between evolution and the Bible. Because in their minds, both couldn't be true at the same time. But the fossil record was pointing somewhere uncomfortable. If giants were real, that meant the Nephilim were real. And if the Nephilim were real, that meant Noah's flood really happened. And if that was true, maybe everything else in the Bible was true, just like Cotton Mather had proposed. For scientists, you could imagine who had spent their entire careers arguing against the Bible, that was an impossible thing to admit. So according to Fallen, they just didn't. Instead, scientists at the Smithsonian made sure no one would ever realize giants were real. Even if that meant destroying all of the evidence.

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28:25Indeed, sponsored jobs gets you quality candidates when you need them most. In the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. Listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend, Britt, break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on crime junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice. Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday, already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie wherever you listen to podcasts.

29:25In 2014, a news article published an interview with an anonymous misogynian employee who were calling Fallon. They revealed that this misogynian had spent more than a century covering up evidence that giants ever existed. They seemed to suggest that museum officials censored all of the records they had of past discoveries of giants, and they destroyed as many of the fossils as they could. They apparently ruined thousands of artifacts, but they couldn't get away with the coverup forever. According to Fallon, the Supreme Court somehow got wind of the conspiracy in or around 2014. They ordered this misogynian to release all the records that still existed that hadn't been destroyed. That's why Fallon was now allowed to speak publicly about what they knew. That revelation was big news, of course. After the article was published, lots of other websites picked up the story.

30:27It swept across social media like wildfire. Photos also began circulating online, supposedly released by the Smithsonian after the Supreme Court ruling, and they apparently showed dig teams uncovering skeletons that were much taller than the average human being. One even showed an enormous skull in a pit. It was so large that excavators couldn't lift it on their own and they needed construction equipment. There's just one problem with these claims. They were part of a practical joke. The website that broke the story was World News Daily Report. It's a satirical page that shares fake news stories similar to the onion. Their logo even reads, quote, were facts don't matter. So in other words, Fallon, the Smithsonian cover up, the Supreme Court ruling were all lies. The website's authors made the story up for clicks.

31:30All of those other websites and social media users either failed to realize it was satir or intentionally spread misinformation. That photo we mentioned of the team digging up the large head, well that came from a Photoshop competition hosted by a site called Design Crowd in 2013. Others were doctored pictures of different digs where teams found extinct animals like mammoths or dinosaurs. There are similar issues with the so-called giant fossil from centuries ago. The enormous tooth cotton mather examined in 1705 is now thought to be from a mastodon. Ancient elephant-like creatures that lived in the ice age and they weren't officially discovered or classified until 1792. So of course, when cotton saw a mammoth tooth roughly a century before then, he had no idea what he was even looking at.

32:33Equally, it's hard to say if the skull that biologist Thomas Mollinus on the Netherlands Museum really came from a human being because he only saw one bone. And as far as we can tell, the specimen has been lost to time. So we don't know if it came from a giant or an ordinary animal. Other discoveries appear to be hoaxes too. Earlier we mentioned how miners and archaeologists reportedly found giant bones in a cave in Nevada during numerous excavations between 1911 and 1924. Well, the excavations were real. Teams found tools, pottery and cloth, which has been put on display and studied by other experts. But nobody has ever seen the supposed giant skeletons they recovered. And there's no record of them being discovered in the archaeologist logs.

33:34So it's very possible that the newspapers from the time made up the reports just to drum up excitement. Which brings us to the grand daddy of all the evidence, the Cardiff Giant. You'll remember the mummy was discovered on William Newell's property in October of 1869. And almost immediately after it was uncovered, William found a way to make a profit off of it. He set up a big tent around the excavation site and he charged people a quarter a piece to come see it with their very own eyes. Tons of people were willing to pay to see the mummy. Demand was so high, William doubled the price to 50 cents after just two days. And still, tourists traveled to Cardiff from all across the country to view his giant. William made a whole lot of money. But eventually, the entire thing was exposed. Because just a few months after the mummy's discovery, at some point in early 1870, a man

34:38named George Hall made a public confession. He said he was William's cousin, the Cardiff Giant was a hoax, and he'd helped fake the entire thing. So you see, George was an atheist, and one of his favorite pastimes was arguing with Christians about whether God existed and whether the Bible was literally true. In 1867, he got into a debate with a devout preacher who insisted every single word of the Bible was accurate, no exceptions. George pushed back, quoting a passage from Genesis about giants walking the earth. He said, surely you don't actually believe that. The preacher said he absolutely did. If it was in the Bible, it was true. And that's when George had a light bulb boomer go off in his head. It was equal parts scam and social experiment. If he created a fake giant and passed it off as a real discovery, religious people would

35:44believe it without question, no matter how obvious the forgery was. He could charge admission to see it, make money, and then reveal the whole thing was just a hoax, proving that blind faith makes people dangerously easy to fool. He wanted to make a point, and of course get rich doing it. So George bought a massive block of stone and hired a sculpture to carve it into the shape of a giant human body. He basically like a fossilized mummy. He brought his relative William in on the plan, and William agreed to let George bury the statue on his farm in exchange of course for a cut of the profits. By November 1868, the statue was carved and buried, and then they waited nearly a year, most likely to let the grass grow back over the site so it wouldn't look freshly dug.

36:45Finally, in October of 1869, William hired two workers named Henry and Gideon to dig a well, right on top of where the statue was buried. And everything went exactly as planned. In total, George spent roughly $3,000 on the hoax, but he made roughly $20,000 on the scam even after he'd split the proceeds with William. Just for inflation, that's roughly half a million dollars today. But if George's goal was to make people more skeptical, it didn't work. Because to this day, people are still falling for giant hoaxes like the World News Daily Report story. And honestly, that's not surprising. Miss information is hard to spot. We've all been fooled by something at some point, but that doesn't mean that giants are entirely fictional.

37:46Scientists believe some ancient people suffered from rare medical conditions that caused extreme uncontrollable growth. In a time before anyone understood hormones or genetics, a person who grew to an extraordinary height may have seen less like a sick human being and more like something out of mythology. Yes, it sounds far-fetched. Will you hear about Robert Wadlow? Robert was born in Alton, Illinois on February 22, 1918. He was an average-sized baby born to average-sized parents. But when he was a toddler, he went through a massive growth spurt. By the time he was five years old, he was already five foot four, meaning he was the same size as many adults, and he kept growing after that. Some sources said he stood six foot two on his eighth birthday.

38:46When he joined the Boy Scouts at age 13, they had to make him a special tent and sleeping bag because he didn't fit into the standard ones. He was more than eight feet tall by the time he graduated high school. Throughout his adulthood, Robert just got bigger and bigger until he eventually reached a whopping height of eight feet 11 inches. As the years went on, Robert's size caused him serious health problems. His body was too heavy for him to walk upright, unless he wore braces on his legs and used a cane. On top of that, according to Discover Magazine, his head and his feet were too far apart to communicate with each other. His brain literally couldn't receive sensations from the nerves on the lower parts of his body. It was like his toes were always numb, and if he subbed them or stepped on something sharp, the pain just didn't register. This became a major problem in early July of 1940 when Robert was 22 years old.

39:53That month, he had to replace the brace on his right ankle, but the doctor didn't put it on correctly, and it rubbed against his skin irritating it. If this had happened to anyone else, the friction would probably have caused him a lot of pain, but not Robert. Because he couldn't feel his feet or his ankles, he didn't notice. He wore the brace for an entire week until it blistered. Then the blister became infected. By the time he realized what was going on, it was too late. The infection had spread to the rest of his body. Robert died from it on July 15, 1940, at the tender age of 22. Some medical professionals believe if he'd lived longer, he would have continued to grow even when he reached his middle age. And it's hard to say how big he could have gotten because there was just no limit.

40:54But the truth was, Robert was diagnosed with a glandular disorder. Most people have glands that produce hormones to make them grow. And once they reach their adult height, they don't make those chemicals anymore. But Robert's body made too much of the hormone, and it never stopped. There was no treatment for this disorder during Robert's lifetime. But these days, people can actually get surgery to fix the glands that make the hormones, basically halting the growth. For those treatments were invented, other people could have grown to be just as tall as Robert or larger. Perhaps that would explain some of the nine-feet tall skeletons that were discovered during the archeological digs. The fossil record has something to add here too. Hundreds of thousands of years ago, a creature called Giganto-Pithecus Blacki walked the earth.

41:54They were closely related to orangutans and distantly related to humans, but potentially ten-feet tall and covered in hair. So the question is, were giants real? Yes, maybe in a sense. Not necessarily mythological monsters or half-angel hybrids, but monumental, extraordinary beings that walk the earth and left an impression so powerful that human beings have been telling stories about them ever since. That's what mythology does. It takes the extraordinary and tries to make sense of it. And more often than not, buried somewhere deep beneath the legend lies something that is very true. We may never know the full story of what once roamed this planet, but the fact that so many cultures across so many centuries kept telling the same story?

43:00That's not nothing. That's a memory. And memories don't survive thousands of years for no reason. This is So Supernatural, an audio-checked original produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram at SoSupernaturalPod and visit our website at SoSupernaturalPodcast.com. Join eventin' me next Friday for an all-new episode. I think Chuck would approve. If you're a small business, the right hire can be maker-break. Indeed sponsored jobs get you quality candidates when you need them most. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs.

44:00Listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. If you're not a big business, you can get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job credit. I'm Alex Goldman, host of the HyperFixed Podcast. Each week, we take listeners' problems and try to solve them for them. Problems like, I'm 30 and I'm scared to drive in New York. Or, why can't I adjust the volume of my car stereo when I'm in reverse? We also solve non-car related problems. If you have a problem, not only will we fix it, we'll expose the hidden systems that caused that problem in the first place. That's the HyperFixed Podcast from Radio Topia. Find it wherever you find podcasts or at HyperFixedPod.com.