Paula Chin

0:00Mi phone number in the theorem of Phuje Viv how much excesszia is loct�� Thisigne is palcolored from a timelineının It is much less Tradingfull Hello everyone and welcome, episode 534 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime Mike Gibson. Give me how are you? I'm doing good, man, and you? I'm doing great. You always doing great. I have most weeks I really am. Yeah. I like my life. Yeah. I like my life too. I'm pretty happy. That's good, you should be. Most of the time. Yeah. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs.

1:00We had Elizabeth Neal. What's going on Elizabeth? Leah Stebans. Alia. Goose to it. Well thanks, Goose. Alexandra. Hey Alexandra. Joe Revan. What's going on Joe? Wendy. Ah, just Wendy. Nicole Williamson. Nicole. And last but not least Whitney Goff jumped out of their highest level. Whitney Go. So yeah, thanks for the new support. And then if we go back into the vault. This week we selected Brandon Leon. We studied Leon. So appreciate the continued support as well. So we have an episode out right now on True Crime All the Time and Salt where we're talking about Michelle Parker. She went missing in 2011 after dropping off her twins at her ex-fiance home. Now over 10 years later there has been no sign of her and no charges have ever been filed in connection with her disappearance. It would be a good one to dive into. Yeah, we get into all of it.

2:01And then on next Thursday's T-cat, we're talking about the 1991 abduction of Cindy Winner. She was abducted from her home outside Sacramento and then later found strangled to death. It's a fascinating case because it took 30 some years to figure it out, but authorities used facial recognition to help solve her murder. It's again, that was challenging, but they came through. Yeah. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time? We're talking about Paula Chin. Paula Chin was a wealthy Tribeca woman who was reported missing in February 2019 and was later found dead in a trash can at her second home in New Jersey. Authorities quickly found a surprising killer with a personal motive. And I mentioned it when we did our, our page on this week, but you know, I don't know

3:04a lot about New York City. You know, I've heard of Tribeca always thought of it as like kind of a posh, trendy place. Yeah. But I've never actually been to New York City. So most of my knowledge is gleaned from TV shows and movies. New York City. And you and your old El Paso commercials. I think I had some good salsa there. But my wife has been on me for years to go to New York and I think we're going to have to go. But you know, I don't like crowds. So it's probably what's kept me from going all these years. Oh, you know, go go for a weekend. Yeah. It's enough to see what you need to see. And yeah, I got to do it. 53 years old. At some point, you got to tick some of the stuff off your bucket list. 65 year old Paula Chin was a retired business woman who lived in a town home in the Tribeca neighborhood of lower Manhattan.

4:05She grew up in Queen. Those who knew her described her as a fun person who was willing to try new things. And she always had a smile on her face. Happy go lucky. Yeah. Which is a good way to be, right? People prefer to be around those types of individuals. Nobody wants to be around a sour pus all the time. You know, it's just not fun. What if somebody does? I want to surround myself with a bunch of miserable sour pushes all day. And maybe there are some individuals like that. I'm not one. You know, I'd like to be around positive people who, you know, are having a good time enjoying themselves, going through life in a good manner. I don't want to be around Debbie Downer from Saturday Night Live all the time. I think it'd be okay to do once in a while just to piss them off. Like just be like, man, things are great today. Guys, isn't it? Isn't it? Come on, guys. You know, what's your having a great time today?

5:06No, they're not having a good time. Paula was married to Philip and they had two sons together, Brandon and Jared. Paula was a successful business woman. She and her husband amassed significant wealth in real estate with a paper products business. In 1987, they purchased their town home in Tribeca and another home in Morris Township, New Jersey. Paula lived in one of the most coveted areas of Tribeca. And I think you wouldn't need to be pretty successful. You would need to have some money, right? To live in this area. We know real estate is very, very expensive. Yeah. You know, the paper product business is a good one to be in. I mean, Michael Scott did pretty good there. He did. So even started his own company at one point. He did. Now I would say he was not nearly as successful as I believe Paula was. Sadly, Philip died of lung cancer in 2008 when he was just in his 50s.

6:09His sons at that time were just six and eight years old. But all of the money was left to Paula. She devoted her life to her sons. She emphasized the importance of education. Brandon and Jared attended exclusive high school in New York City. It was said that she was close with both of them. Paula decided to retire in her mid 60s. She was looking forward to traveling and enjoying the money she worked so hard to her. That's what she's supposed to do. It's kind of the dream, right? You know, we work hard. Yes. And we work a long time. That's true. If you think about it, still am. Right. That's what I'm saying. From late teens, for some people early 20s to what? 65ish is probably the average retirement age. Yeah. I mean, I've been going at it since eight though. I mean, they start putting me in front of certain people doing equations and stuff.

7:10Yeah. You saw this now, please. We're also in the little rascals there for a while. That's true. You know, for all of you. Ruggie and then I also did some standing for Alpha Alpha, you know, it's not work. But this is what people aspire to do, right? You work hard, you save your money. And then when you retire, you have enough so that you can do what you want to do. Late on February 4th, 2019, Paula was reported missing by her sons. Jared, who by that time was 22 years old and Brandon, who was 24. Paula was last seen at the end of January. Jared and Brandon had been trying to reach her for three to four days, but their calls went straight to voicemail. And I'm sure that was very concerning for them. We talked about it, right? How close the three of them were. The mom and the sons. Yeah. Their dad died when they were very young. So growing up, that's really the only person they had was their mom.

8:12It sounds like. That's probably why they got even closer. Yeah, I would say that had a lot to do with it. Jared mentioned that Paula was suffering from dementia right away. Jared provided the name and number of a man Paula was seeing, but investigators couldn't get in contact with him right away over the foot. And obviously, as we've talked about in many cases, you're going to want to talk to the current partner, right? First and foremost. And then you branch out, you're going to want to talk to X's, you want to talk to family members because I just got done talking about how much money Paula had a mass. So if you're an investigator working this case, do you also have to think about the sons? Oh, I think so. I mean, money's them could be the potential motive, right? And they would be set to inherit you would think all of her money. These checked local hospitals and processed Paula's license plate through the NYPD's license

9:16plate reader system. This tool showed that Paula's car made several late night trips from Tribeca to New Jersey in the three to four days before she was reported missing. This was unusual as she had never made this trip in the middle of the night before. Paula also had no history of running away. There would be no reason. Somebody at her age with her type of money would need to run away. And by my way of thinking, there would also be no reason why she would need to make this trip in the middle of the night. Yeah. I think her schedule was probably fairly open. Most people don't like driving at night. It's harder to see, especially as you get older. So that seems like, you know, that would be very out of the ordinary. And from the beginning, things just weren't adding up to investigators. Detectives arrived at Paula's home at 2 a.m. on February 5th.

10:17Her car was parked right in front of her townhouse. Inside her car was a bag that contained the clothes. Jared said his mother was last seen wearing. And those clothes gibs were stained with blood. Vescares also found a blanket and duct tape and blood on the carpet. Well, as these officers show up, their suspicion level has to be through the roof. Oh, once you find this stuff, oh my gosh, yeah. Someone's reported missing their cars there, but there's bloody items. There's blood on the carpet. Okay, things aren't looking too good. And when you find duct tape, that is nine times out of 10, a red flag. Now, duct tape can be used for a lot of things. It can't be. But it is also often used by nefarious people. That's why you keep 7, 8, 9 rolls in your vehicle at all times. I do have some duct tape in my vehicle.

11:19Insectize. So many uses for that zip ties. Yeah, it's all going to come out when they do the Netflix documentary down the road at some point. While they still didn't know for sure if they were dealing with a homicide, the detectives at the house had a bad feeling that something terrible happened to Paula. And we just talked about it, right? How could they not based on what they found in the car? The car was processed for fingerprints in DNA. The search then moved inside Paul's house. Investigators used a special light to illuminate blood spatter in the kitchen, which indicated someone had attempted to clean up the blood. And that's always fascinating. Right? To see a room light up. And for them to be able to see right away where blood was. And oftentimes you can see like the swirl marks where somebody was cleaning and cleaning. But they just, they can't remove every trace of it.

12:21They think they can. Sure. Because to the naked eye it might look clean. Carpeting pillows and kitchenware. We're collected from the scene. Founders then rushed to Paula's second home in New Jersey. In the basement was a child size winter sled. And they found blood under the sled. More blood was found in the garage, as well as duct tape and bloody rubber gloves in the garbage. Well someone didn't do a great job of getting rid of evidence. Yeah. And I wonder why that was. You know, was the killer rushed? in some way, did they feel rushed or were they just sloppy, had little knowledge of forensics or we just don't know. Or did they think they had more time that they could come back later and possibly? Yeah. Outside, investigators found a trash can and Paulus feet were sticking out of it.

13:22The trash was due to be picked up that morning, meaning they narrowly missed the possibility of Paulus body being collected and taken to a different facility. Maybe. I mean, I don't know what kind of trash system they have there. But I'm thinking if it's the type, the type where the guys are on the back of the truck and they get a rolled up and hook it up, I would hope someone would see the feet and be like, hey, wait, let's wait a minute. Yeah. I'm thinking a lot of these, you know, a lot of times they have the ones where the truck has the little arm and it comes up and picks it and dumps it and they're probably not even looking at it. Right. You don't even know what was just dumped. Yeah. And some scenarios, but yeah, if somebody's getting out and they're actually have to pick it up like and throw it in, you would think they would have noticed it. But then again, they might be like, hey, it's like 11.30, dude. We got lunch. If we call the police now, we're probably not going to get lunch and then we're going to be late and then the boss is going to be mad because we didn't get the route done.

14:24Let's go ahead and dump this thing. But the other thing is, you know, that's not an easy job, right? You're picking up these trash cans all day long, but this would be a very heavy trash can. I would think if it had a human body. I would think. And Paula had been brutally attacked. She died from multiple blunt impacts to her head and a stab wound to her neck. So this missing person's case quickly turned to a murder investigation. Chief Sergeant Nicole Monica recalled that she was at the precinct when Brandon received the news that his mother was dead. She told the show New York homicide that Brandon seemed to be in a fall and that Jared also seemed shocked. That's what she would expect. I would think so. Right? If a son or two sons found out that their mother was dead murdered, I know would be unbelievably shocked. It's like they were just in disbelief.

15:27According to Detective Monaco, she said it's very difficult to describe. When he looked at you, he was looking through you. You know you'd have a conversation with him and the way he stared at you wasn't like a normal stare. And it was, I don't know if she was talking specifically about Brandon or Jared or maybe both of them. But she did say he. On this time, police finally got in contact with Paul's boyfriend. He spoke to Detective Sergeant Monaco and said he hadn't seen or spoken to Paula in a number of days. He was ultimately ruled out as a suspect. So now it seems like it doesn't look great for the boys or one of the boys maybe. Well, I would think attention definitely has to turn to them for sure. Now my first thought was, you know, could a boyfriend kill? Yeah, absolutely. It happens. But there's a lot less motive for him to kill.

16:31What's in it for him? Unless he's labeled on insurance policy or on the bank accounts or something or something like that. I mean, they're not married. So he's not getting anything through, you know, that avenue. This interview, Paula's son separate. Jared and Brandon were asked if there was anything else about Paula's life that investigators needed to know. Brandon revealed some critical information in his interview. He took issue with Jared's assertion that Paula had dementia. He explained that Paula had always been somewhat forgetful, but he hadn't seen any progression or any other signs of dementia. Brandon also mentioned that Jared and Paula had some disputes about money. Jared failed out of the state University of New York, which disappointed Paula. He moved back in with her and try back and started attending community college. Jared was also constantly trying to borrow money from his mom.

17:33And he wasn't asking for small amounts. He would ask for, you know, $2,500, $5,000 at a time. Wow. Okay. It's a big number. Brandon told Jared he needed to stop asking their mom for money. So it's interesting, right? The siblings are being questioned. And, you know, Brandon is revealing some information that doesn't really make his brother, Jared, look all that good. You know, initially, you know, you kind of thought these brothers were close. Which they could have been. Yeah. You don't see this coming. No, even if there's some friction in the family, right? Which there's frictions in a lot of families, let's be honest. Would you really think that one of your brothers was capable of murdering your mother? And I think for most people, that would just be inconceivable, right? To use a phrase from Princess Bride, inconceivable.

18:37That's pretty good. I just don't think most people would kind of let their mind go there. I don't think they would want their mind to go there. Yeah. Both, probably. When asked if he thought Jared could be involved in the murder, Brandon said yes. The detective who interviewed him recalled that Brandon actually went when he asked the question. It's almost like, yeah, I hate to say it, but I do think that he could be involved. Rick Gears also learned that Jared was involved with two women, 22 year old Caitlin O'Rourke, who he met at SUNY and 18 year old Jennifer Lopez, whom he met when he returned in New York City. Unfortunately for him, not the famous Jennifer Lopez, I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think so. But that's a lot to juggle there. I mean, on your early days before you got married, you had date multiple women. I don't know how you could dateings a strong word. I don't know how you pulled it off.

19:40No, I was not a lethario by any means, but you're right. I think anytime you're juggling multiple partners, depending on the seriousness of the relationship, that's, it's a lot to pull off. Oh, yeah, I would think so. You're juggling calls, you're juggling dates. You don't want one person to be at your place when another one shows up conversations, you know, you got to remember what you said to one person and not mix it up with what you said to the other one. Now we don't know because we never been in this position. We're just assuming exactly. According to the show New York homicide, both girls were so in love with Jared, they were willing to share him. I don't know if I really believe that. I can't imagine a woman being like, that's okay, babe. You go be with her. I'm with you too, you know?

20:41I think there are maybe some people like that. I think it's probably a not normal in our generation. It's not what we're used to. That's true. I don't know about the younger generation and what they've got going on, but I'm assuming that the show probably talked to the girls and they probably confirmed it, but it wouldn't make it a lot easier, right? All that stuff I talked about with the juggling and everything. Okay, probably not quite as hard then. Yeah, well, if you could just be up front and say, hey, I'm dating you and I'm going to date her. You guys get along. If not, I'll find someone else to replace one of you. Let's go have a good time. I just don't see it working out. I wouldn't work out for most people. Jared explained that he was dating both of them and described himself as polyamorous and gender fluid. Gender fluid. Those are terms that I hear floated around a lot these days. Yeah. Meanwhile, investors were searching for security cameras in the area that might have

21:44important evidence. There were few cameras in Paula's neighborhood because historic buildings in New York City are limited in how many cameras they can have. Did not know that. I did neither, but it does kind of make some sense, right? You have these old historic buildings. Do you really want to be drilling into them to mount security cameras all over the place, probably not? Also makes it a little less safe though. It does. But if you're in that posh area of Tribeca is safety your biggest concern, it probably isn't. I think there's some privacy concerns too with cameras. That's true. However, there was a commercial business that captured Paula's residence. The surveillance footage showed a vehicle backing up to her home. At one point, Jared was there with one female and then at another point, he was there with two female. The two individuals appeared to be struggling to lift something heavy into Paula's car.

22:50And these two women were soon identified as Jennifer Lopez and Caitlin O'Rourke. Jared was still at the precinct when investigators found the footage. He was detained as a person of interest and it was said that he seemed unfazed, which is kind of a strange way to feel or act at that point. If I'm caught up in any type of murder investigation and at any point, I seem unfazed. Something is really wrong with me. Yeah, because I'm going to be shitting bricks. I'm definitely not going to be unfazed at that point. Jared admitted to using his mom's car twice between January 31st and February 1st. He made the first trip to New Jersey to get his coin collection to sell for a rent down payment. Later that afternoon, he returned to start apartment hunting in the area. But at some point during this discussion, Jared stopped talking and he requested a lawyer.

23:52I don't think that's smart. Well, yeah, you and I talk about it a lot, right? Is it a good idea? Yeah. But what are investigators left to think? Most of the time, even though they know it's a right, it's not going to make you look less guilty. That's for sure. Jennifer Lopez was also arrested, but refused to answer questions. Caitlin O'Rourke initially denied any knowledge of the murder, but detectives continued pressing her. She then said that Jared controlled them. And you know what? There's always someone who cracks. There is. I would say most of the time, not always, but most of the time when you have multiple people, the authorities are going to get one person to crack. There's always going to be a weak link. Well, if you can scare him enough, I mean, this is murder charges. Yeah. This is as bad as it gets. Caitlin revealed that Jared hated his mother. He told Caitlin something to the effect of, according to one detective, she's cheap.

24:56She doesn't want to give me money. I want my inheritance now. I'm going to kill her. I guess he felt that he was entitled, huh? I think entitled is a pretty good word. He also seems a little spoiled. Lazy. Lazy and petuous. There's probably a whole bunch of adjectives you could throw in there. Jared promised that with the money he would get, he would take care of Caitlin and Jennifer for the rest of their lives. Do you know how much money it costs to take care of two people for the rest of their lives? Much more than I think he realized when he made that statement. Probably. I get it. His mom was probably pretty wealthy, but it's very expensive to take care of it. Anybody for the rest of their lives, if they're never going to work, anybody who has kids can attest to that. That's a really big promise. It is. Because what happens if you don't fulfill that promise? Well, you're opening yourself up to them potentially. Still in the beans. Spilling the beans and you being a murderer.

25:59Jared's plan to kill Paula was enacted at Paula's home on January 31, 2019. He'd snapped during an argument over his inheritance. He beat Paula, stabbed her in the throat, and then threw her down the stairs. Three hours later, he texted, it's done. I'm free and that he got rid of his problem. And we ask this question quite a bit. How could this person do what they did? But Gibbs, how can a son beat his mother, stab her in the throat, and then throw her down the stairs? And call the problem. Yeah. This is the woman who brought you into the world, raised you by all accounts, loved you more than anything else, tried to set him up, sending to the best schools that he apparently couldn't make it through. And we know eventually he'll dispose of her body in a trash can.

27:02Your mom put inside of a trash can to be visibly, if not found, taken to a dump. And just to be with trash forever? It's that they're right away. And a landfill or whatever it is, that is horrible. Jennifer came over and helped clean up the crime scene. Caitlin said that Jared called her after he and Jennifer moved the body. Jared admitted he killed his mom. And he said it took her a while to die. And to me, that statement says a lot. This wasn't self-defense where you plunged a knife into somebody during an altercation. When it takes a long time for somebody to die, that automatically means that you could have gotten them help and most likely saved their life. But he absolutely chose not to. Why? Because he wanted her to die so that he could get his hands on her money.

28:03It's all matter to him. Plain and simple. Money. Jennifer also texted Caitlin saying it's all clean. The hardest part was backing up the car. Caitlin said that on February 1st, the three of them went to Morris Township, New Jersey and moved the body to an outside garbage container. She attempted to wash clothes from the crime scene at the New Jersey home. And it was Jennifer who actually drove because she was the only one with a license. I get it. A lot of people in New York probably don't get their license because it's easier to... That's too expensive to own a car. Yeah. Walk or use public transportation. But also, it seems to me that younger people nowadays are waiting longer and longer to get their license. Just in general, I agree with you. But can we go back to these two women for a minute? You are given a proposition.

29:03Will you participate? Will you help me kill my mother in exchange for me basically taking care of you for the rest of your life? Meaning you don't have to work or whatever. We'll just all live together. I'll pay for everything. Can you take that in? You mull it over and what pops out is, yeah, sure I'm in. So shallow, they had to be. They were okay living with the fact that he killed his bomb. They were aware of it. They might have been able to stop it and they helped clean it up, cover it up. And they participated, yeah, in a large way. Jared tried to reassure Jennifer and Kaylen by telling them that rich people can get a good lawyer and they don't have to go to jail for these crimes. Jennifer and Kaylen expressed their worry because they weren't rich. But Jared said he would take care of it for them.

30:04Oh, take care of it for you. Well, wait a minute and see if I get in trouble, I probably don't get that money. Maybe I can't take care of legal stuff for you. But that thought, right, that rich people don't go to jail for these types of crimes because they have the money to get a good lawyer and connections in some cases. But to me, that just really shows you this guy's mindset. That's his mentality. Like, hey, I'm untouchable because I have all this money where I will have all this money that I deserve. The investigators needed more than just Kaylen statement. So they subpoenaed Paula's personal records and Jared's personal records. Jared's tax indicated that he was considering killing his mother days before the homicide. He texted one of the girls before the murder going to do this thing tonight.

31:04Phone data also showed that Jared was searching for a state lawyer and looking into how quickly he could collect death benefits. Oh, I believe that. He was money hungry. Yeah. But he's also showing his level of premeditation or at least his records are showing that. The Manhattan DA's office noted that Jared began the process of changing the passwords on Paula's bank accounts and researching ways to dispose of bodies. He made a disturbing search about DIY bone meal. Well, that's disgusting. Do it yourself. Bone meal. Yeah. So that means he was thinking about dismembering her body, but also trying to crush it up in some way. What does it sound like? I mean, he's doing all this stuff on his computer, his mom's computer, right, changing

32:09the bank account and I mean, researching this stuff. It doesn't like he's the smartest kid, but I guess he doesn't have to be because he feels like, dude, all I need to do is get one of these attorneys for rich people. And I'll have anything to worry about anyway. Yeah. I'm with you. I don't know if he was as smart as his brother was. He couldn't hack it at the college he was at. Now that may have not had anything to do with intelligence, it could have just been he had a bad work, that thick. Oh, that's true. But when you kind of look at the way he carried this thing out, it doesn't scream genius criminal mastermind. No. I mean, who in the world leaves a body in the trash cans with the feet sticking out? Yeah, it leaves the car with stuff still sitting in it. Bloody clothes. Blood on the carpet duct tape. It just seems like this kid was lazy.

33:10He's just lazy. That's what I believe. I think he wanted the easy way to live his life. Oh, I definitely think he wanted that. The point that he was willing to, and did sacrifice his mom and somehow, let's had the wordsmith to enhance or not enhance, but entice these two girls to go along with them. Yeah, he talked to them into it. But you used the word entitled earlier. And I think that's probably the best word. Because he really felt, I believe, that he was entitled to this money, that his mom and dad had worked all their lives to build. And him at what, twenty-some years old, should have it. And that's the problem, I think, with anybody that feels like they are entitled to get the money that their mom and dad have currently. Like, why should I do anything?

34:10I'm eventually, I'm going to get inherit this house. Or eventually, I'll get this money that mom and dad said that they have, you know, a couple million bucks in their 401k or whatever. This X is going to be mine, so I'm not going to worry about anything. Well that part is true, right? For most people, eventually you are going to get it. Yeah, maybe. But at what point? You don't know how long your parents are going to live. It doesn't mean you just can bum around until they die. And it certainly doesn't mean that they should be killed so that you can start living life the way you want to with their money. Yeah, you can't expedite this process. As he was led out of a police precinct on February 6th after questioning, reporters asked Jared if he killed his mother. He replied, I did not. I loved her. She gave me everything. That makes me crawl. What's Ken crawl? Well, I think the she gave me everything part was true.

35:11Right? I think she did give him everything. But that wasn't enough. No, he wanted more. He wanted more than everything. He wanted more than his fair share. That's for sure. But also, you know, these reporters are asking him if he killed his mother. What's he supposed to say? Well, that's true. Yeah, I did it. No. He's got an attorney now. So he's not going to say something stupid. No, he's going to lie. On February 7th, 2019, Jared Ng was formally charged with evidence tampering and concealment of a course. He was later charged with murder. And you do see that quite a bit in cases. The murder charge doesn't always come right away. No. There's some other charges that are easily proved at that point in time. And they kind of wait on the murder until they are able to put more things together sometimes. Caitlin and Jennifer were also charged with evidence tampering and concealment.

36:12As they should have been. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, you can say they didn't commit the murder, but they played a role in it. And in some states, I think you can make an argument that they could have gotten charged with murder. I think so. They knew that he wanted to do this. And they had the text messages, too, right? And they were there at certain parts. On February 8th, Jared did an hour-long interview with the New York Post where he denied killing Paula for her money. He admitted they had a fight over her declining health in the hours before her murder. He said it was never about the money, but also said there was a lot of money in there, like 10 million, maybe 11 million. Right, don't get me wrong. $10, 11 million is a lot of money. But is it enough for three people in their 20s to live the rest of their life on?

37:12Really not the way they're going to spend it. No, and you get to remember it's going to be split down the middle, I'm assuming, because his brothers are going to try to get half. You're right. So he might only get five. Yeah, so out of the five million, there's no way for the rest of your life, you're going to live off that and take care of these two girls. Yeah, not going to have nothing to lifestyle that he's used to. The other thing is, whenever somebody says it wasn't about the money, it was about the money. It's almost always turns out that way. Well, you look at some of the things that he said to the girls, you know, it's about the money. Yeah, you could tell that from his text messages and other things. It's just funny when people say that it wasn't about the money, it almost always turns out to be solely about the money. According to Philip Ing's will, obtained by the post, Jared and Brandon wouldn't receive their inheritance from their father until they turn 35. The will showed that Philip left everything to his wife, but the will dictated that if

38:18Paula died, the sons would split the estate. And that makes sense. It does, but it's also not only expediting money that they would be getting from Paula. It's expediting Philip's money as well because they're not slated to get that until they're 35. But now with the mom dead, they would split it. They would split it. Oh, but here's a thought that, you know, I had, I get it. He wants all this money and it's greed. It's nasty. But he was probably set to inherit quite a bit of money at the age of 35. But he couldn't even wait that long. No, he couldn't because he was spoiled. He was. I truly believe that and spoiled is not the worst thing in the world. Some people are spoiled and they handle it just fine.

39:19They still become very productive, caring members of society. Some people do not. And unfortunately, that's what we're dealing with here in Jared. He was spoiled, but then went on to believe he was entitled, the rules didn't apply to him. And as long as he wanted it, then he could take it. Also had a lifestyle. We got to keep up, right? He had two women that he was involved with that he needed to, you know, pay the tab. Yeah. That's a good point. And it's probably why he went to, you know, as his brother Brandon said, he would go to his mom wanting $2,500, $5,000 very frequently. Jared declined to discuss the particulars of his case, but said, I want to clear my name. I didn't kill her. He later wondered if he really did, saying I was feeling suicidal. I was having these thoughts.

40:21What if I did do it? Maybe I did do it. Then I don't deserve to live. So you want people to feel sorry for you, huh? Yeah. I think he's full of it. Yes. I absolutely do. I think he knows or knew back then and still does exactly what he did. Maybe his attorney says, he had to create some type of reasonable doubt. Maybe you need to start saying some things. Jared portrayed himself as a devoted son, concerned for his mother's well-being after their dad died. He said he wanted his mom to get out. He also claimed that the argument he had with Paula on January 30 was because he was urging her to see a doctor for arthritis and possible early Alzheimer's. He said, one can't observe it themselves. They need people around him. I look at him. He's a caring son. But it flies in the face of what his brother said. Absolutely. Right. He said he never saw any signs of dementia or, you know, possible early Alzheimer's

41:23or anything like that. Jared said Paula was generous with her money and estimated she kept her money across several accounts. He wasn't allowed to touch. He said she gave me everything. If I needed anything, she gave it to me money. She gave it to me. She didn't have to work if she didn't want to. I think at one point that was true. I have a feeling, though, Gibbs, that she stops because he was just asking for large, wild sums of money more and more frequently. I think she said, you know what? Enough. Yeah. I think at one point she had to put her foot down and that's when he probably thought or started to think or maybe made the decision that he was going to kill her. When you feel entitled and all sudden that entitlement goes away, you have to think, okay, I either need to find a way to get it back or my lifestyle is going to change drastically.

42:27And I can't have that. Jared refused to speculate on who may have killed Paula. He claimed that he and his brother reported her missing on a Friday. When other sources said she was reported missing on Monday, he also said, I was worried for my brother because he's next of kin. I'm worried someone is going to go after him. You know, the only person who would go after him. Yeah. Jared is Jared. On February 27, 2019, Jared entered a not guilty plea at his arrangement after he was indicted for second degree murder. Both Jared and Jennifer Lopez were also indicted for concealing a corpse, three counts each of hindering prosecution. Caitlin and Jennifer ultimately cooperated with prosecutors and were sentenced to probation. And that was probably really smart on their parts. It's one of the best things they probably could have done for themselves. Yeah, because they were going to, they were looking at time, right?

43:28They were going to do some time. But you know, who does the DA really want? They want Jared. Yeah. To get him, they need Caitlin and Jennifer to cooperate. And so they make a deal with them. And you know, it's just something that sometimes has to be done. And like I said, a few minutes ago, that's the best thing they could hope for. Yeah, probation. You ain't getting a better deal than that. I mean, that's a story, I guess. I mean, sometimes I don't know. I don't know. I'd even want to tell the story. I guess if I wanted to, I'm like, man, I did something really bad. But because I cooperated with the police, I'm here today. I didn't have to do any time for it. And people would be like, dang girl, you should have did some time for that. Yeah, yeah, probably. I think a lot of people would think that. But I get the, you know, having to, you know, make a deal to ensure that you get the conviction.

44:29Because Caitlin and Jennifer did some stuff they shouldn't have done. Right. But what they did was wrong, but they didn't kill, right? No. Jared killed his mother. Yes. They helped cover it. They helped clean up, which is bad, but it's not murder. I mean, I feel like because the police really needed them, they were lucky that they didn't get more trouble because at least one of them knew ahead of time that he was going to do this. Well, you have to have the police to need you, right? To get the deal. So that is definitely part of the equation. On September 16, 2022, Jared pleaded guilty to one count of second degree murder. On October 26, he was sentenced to 22 years to life in prison. So second degree murder. I think this is where a good attorney comes into play. Yeah, because we're all thinking why didn't he get first degree murder?

45:31Exactly. There was obvious premeditation. And because of that, I mean, 22 years to life in prison, good behavior. He could be out well before our age. Yeah. Easily. Oh, very easily. At sentencing, Jared said he had flashbacks and nightmares over what he did. He told the court that Paula was a great person who deserved a better son. Oh shit. Exactly. If you were the judge, that's what you would have said. Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks, Captain Obvious, for that, for enlightening all of us with those words of wisdom towards the end of the case, the show New York homicide talks about Brandon, who's often not mentioned in sources. He's also a victim while he received the inheritance, he lost both his mother and his brother because of Jared's selfish desire to access his inheritance early.

46:31Yeah, his whole world changed. I mean, great. He's got his half of the 11 million or maybe he ended up getting it all. I don't know how to. Yeah, I don't know how to words. He probably got it all because I don't think you can get inheritance if you're the killer. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think you're right. But even with all that money, I mean, look, he doesn't have his mom anymore. He doesn't have his brother, which at one point, I'm sure he felt like that was his one of his best friends. And I bet you any amount of money that if asked, he would say, take the money back, give me my mom, give me my old life. Absolutely. Yeah. At some point, I'll probably get some of that money years down the road. I can wait for it. That's how most people think, but not Jared. And right. He was, as you said, and I still think it's the best word, feeling entitled.

47:33This is what I deserve. This is what I should have. I don't have it. But here's a way how I can get it. But the way to get it isn't working hard. It's not going out and starting your own business. It's not starting your own thing. It's killing the person who probably loves you the most in the world and destroying your brother's life in the process. And you got to think, how am I going to get away with it? How am I even going to be able to spend the money? Well, that's the thing. The way that they orchestrated this was so shoddy. So I think probably criminals at the prison with them are embarrassed for them. They're like, what? Are you the guy that left the body with the legs sticking out of the trash can? Yeah. I don't want to let the car out with all the blood on the seats and the duct tape. And what were you thinking? Yeah, as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, it's a tough one.

48:33Because I think for most people listening, they just can't imagine. How somebody can come to that conclusion, make that decision. Yeah, this is the best course of action. I get it. It's a ton of money. Yeah. Five million dollars, let's say, is a ton of money. There's no way around it. But to get it, you have to kill your mother, destroy your brother, and risk spending most of your life in prison. And how is that worth it at all? I mean, here's a thought. Your mom and dad were smart, hardworking. They found a way to go from basically zero to 11 million or whatever the final total was. Maybe try that out for a little bit. See what you're capable of before you just want to take the hand out. And you know, there are a lot of people who do that. They work hard. They start their own stuff for, you know, they get with a great company and they work their way up. Yeah. That's what a lot of people do.

49:34But there are some people unwilling to do it. And they're always looking for that easy way. How do they get what they want without having to do the work? I want that lifestyle when my mom and dad have. Yeah. How do I get that right now? And I think that's where Jared was. But that's it for our episode on Paula Chin. We got a couple of voicemails. You want to check those out? Hi, my name is Tim and I have just recently started. And I found you that episode about Robert Verdella. He was from my hometown of Kyiv, the Falls, Ohio. And despite what other people say, he is actually buried in Oakwood Cemetery in his father's grave as well. I also grew up near the area where Jeffrey Dahmer was in Bato, Ohio. So something about Northeast Ohio, gentlemen, really brings out the weird. And also James Huberti from Camp, Ohio, who murdered a bunch of people at the San Jacidro

50:41McDonald's. I love your podcast. I just enjoy it. And your facts are always straight on. And thank you so much for your time. I thought he was going to say my name is my name is Slim Shady. Yeah, I kind of had that run into my head as well. But yeah, we appreciate the voicemail. There is something about like Northeast Ohio. That's why we live in Southwest. It is. No, not that we don't have our share down here. We're actually probably getting ready to do a Southwestern serial killer or Southwest Ohio serial killer here pretty soon. But we appreciate the nice comments very much. We do. Hey, guys. This is Heather up in Vermont. I've called in a couple of times. And I wanted to share a funny from when I first started listening to you. I didn't start at the beginning. I just jumped in on a random one that caught my attention when I was working. And I have to admit this now because every time you make a joke about giving you being

51:43a minzo or this or that, I actually spent like two hours trying to Google him when we first started because I thought he actually was all of the things. And I know that is painfully dumb now. But I thought you might get a kick out of that. Anyway, have a great day. Bye. Well, I actually do get a kick out of it. But don't feel bad because a lot of people have thought that over the years. I've gotten a lot of emails. What are you saying? Wanting to know, you know, is Gibby really in Mensa? Yes. Is Gibby really a Jason Bourne type individual? Yes, yes. Is he, was he a doogie house or at the age of 10 or 11? Yes. It's all, yes. It's all true. All true. By the way, where's our cheese for Vermont? Sinous cheese. I want cheese. First of all, Vermont is not known for their cheese. What are they known for? That's Wisconsin. No, Vermont's got good cheese too. Do they? Yes. I thought Vermont is like maple syrup territory. They have that too.

52:45They have cheese. I'm Mensa. I know things. Okay. I think Wisconsin, when I think cheese, Wisconsin's got a lot of cheese. I mean, there are a lot of places that make cheese. Don't get me wrong. You know, the Packer's fans are known as cheese heads. Yeah, that's a little weird. I mean, that's great, guys. That's because they're from Wisconsin. Yeah. All right, we appreciate the voicemail. We do. All right, that's it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.